Conversations with "Madame X"
- Chemtrail Insider
The email messages below were initiated
by a person who is deeply involved
within those responsible for implanting and promoting the "chemtrail"
idea.
To protect her identity, I have identified her as "Madame
X" and present the unsolicited messages I have received in
their entirety with the exception of her name, which in fact may
also be a pseudonym.
She has refused permission for me to quote these messages. I do
so not in an effort to disparage, defame, or violate privacy,
but in order to accurately inform my readers of the way they have
been convinced to believe falsely by this "chemtrail"
promoter.
On 3/31/99, "Madame X" sent me a final message stating
she believes my replies constitute "harassment". She
also said, "You go right ahead and post all my e-mails to
your website, sweetheart, no one will believe that they're real
anyway, because as you said yourself, no one knows "MadameX"
exists." I will not reply to further email messages sent
by "Madame X".
I have asked her to, "Please end all correspondence with
me immediately."
"Madame X" has been informed by me that the information
she presented was false, and has not made the necessary retractions,
or presented documentary evidence to the contrary, over the course
of three months. In my continuing effort to provide accurate information,
I must reveal to my readers the whole truth.
Careful reading of these messages will reveal
that this promoter of the "chemtrail" idea bases her
claims on unsupported conjecture, undocumented rumor, selective
omission, and blatantly false information. I will continue to
inform readers with more information as it becomes available.
===========================================
First message received: 1/7/2000
Dear Mr. Reynolds,
For some time now I have read with great unease your disparaging
comments regarding
my colleague, Will Thomas, and his manufactured Chemtrails phenomena,
so you allege to anyone who reads your words.
Since February of 1999, I have been working with Will Thomas on
the "chemtrails"
problem, having teamed with him from my own research which dates
to November 1998. Will Thomas did not manufacture the Chemtrails,
or unusual contrail activity, if you will, story. I have only
known him to be an honest and credible person who sincerely is
seeking the truth in the various explanations that have surfaced
from many arenas regarding the contrails in question. That the
USAF disavows any knowledge of the situation and explains them
as "normal" is not surprising. I wonder if you know,
however, that there are other branches of the US military, i.e.
the aerosol and biological research divisions as well as factions
of NASA who do not regard these low hanging, long lingering contrails
as normal? I also wonder if you know, as you never seem to make
mention of the fact, that there is another side to the high altitude
"chemtrails" occurring concomitantly and that is a low
altitude biologically laden powder that has been dropped on residential
areas across the US and Canada from C-130 Hercules airplanes?
You seem to take an overzealous delight in shooting holes in any
explanation that Will, and I, have offered a sincerely questioning
public. You seem to be under the impression that because he promotes
Usana health supplements that he somehow created this entire chemtrail
scheme as a way to boost his sales. You are dead wrong, and I
resent, on behalf of my colleague's intentions, and mine, knowing
full well the hours and days and months spent researching this
phenomena that both he and I have done, your truly myopic synopsis
of Will's desire to put a name and face on the strange X's and
O's in the sky.
You cite a few people with some unusual backgrounds and associations
as a "part" of Chemtrails story. When you are investigating
a story of this nature, you are confronted by a number of people,
some of them with unsavory backgrounds, and some of them with
impeccable pedigrees. Both can add significant information to
a story. I have been given information from people with impeccable
pedigrees that when looked further into turned out to be totally
erroneous. The idea, then, that Will perhaps met up with some
fringe individuals who gave him some information is not a reflection
of his intention to create a bogus story. So, for you to assert
publicly that Will deliberately created and mislead people in
a sort of "Emperor's New Clothes" story named Chemtrails,
and then re-accuse the ENS for running his reports, is not only
professionally incompetent it is just plain wrong. You have never
mentioned my name, or any other of Will's many credible contributing
investigators, in any of your Will Thomas smear campaigns which
tells all of us who actually know Will Thomas that you obviously
don't know everything there is to know about how Will works, or
whom he gets
his information from, or how hard he works to truly research this
subject which is a lot more than I can say for the petty slamming
you engage in. You obviously have not done all your homework,
dear Sir, if you, in all your pompous mud-slinging, haven't unturned
my name in association with Will Thomas, as I have worked very
closely with Will since February 1999 on this story. So, if you
are going to hold him accountable for remarks made regarding biological
"fallout" emanating from planes over America and Canada,
you necessarily should have spoken to the source of where Will's
words on that subject came from, and that would be me. So, don't
be so cock sure of yourself thinking that you have looked into
every nook and cranny and know it all about what's going on in
our skies just because USAF doesn't corroborate the "unusual
contrails" phenomena. That's like asking the Department of
Defense to admit to the sarin nerve gas story. Once the genie's
out of the bottle
and done some damage, no one wants to claim him as theirs.
That Will has not answered any of your slams is not surprising
to me. He doesn't need to convince anyone of anything, although
he will stand his own on any public debate. Will simply writes
and speaks to that information that he has been given and that
which he has found on his own. If, in some instances, that information
later proves to be a misconception, he would be the first to elucidate
it and admit it. But, he has never deliberately set out to misinform,
disinform, or create a sensational story in order to either boost
his Usana sales or to aggrandize himself.
You seem to be a competent wordsmith, and I wonder why you devote
so much of your time to trying to dismantle the "Chemtrails"
story and Will Thomas? Don't you have any other subject worthy
of such unprofessional vitriole? Or is dismantling Will Thomas
and his Chemtrails story your only job, financed by, hmm, well,
let's see now, whom would that be, Mr. Reynolds?
Sincerely,
"Madame X"
=====================================
Second message received: 1/7/2000
Dear Jay,
I worry for nothing, dear, and neither should you, because if
you are truly out to find the truth, then you will eventually
wind up on our side and stop this silly nonsense you've been engaging
in. You make me laugh when you say we've created a scam. That's
ludicrous. How could we possibly have
done that? Did we go up and make those strange marks in the sky?
Did we rent C-130s and dust houses across the US and Canada with
bug powder? I don't think so, dear. Return fire? Close to the
enemy? Oh, dear Jay, you are silly with this, you know? You've
been on the internet
too long.
I have a proposal for you. We can always use good and credible
researchers.If you are as truly as good a researcher as you say
you are and truly have the fire in you to tell the truth, come
join us! Why be our worst nightmare when you can help unravel
the problem and be part of the solution instead of performingthis
lowly task of sniping at people who are only trying to solve a
mystery?
By the way, whom would I present my credentials to, and why? I
don't need to prove anything to you about who I am and what I
do. I don't need to impress you or curry your favor or get your
seal of approval. And neither does Will. What exactly are you
wanting him to debate you about? Are you an expert on all this
that I mention here? How many lab samples have you collected from
these homes sprayed with biological laden crap? I started out
doing this project to get an answer for a neighbor whose home
was covered by fungus, mold, bacterial "crud" sprayed
all over her home from a low flying military type plane. And since
then, I've found that this phenomena has occurred all over the
US and Canada and even some places in Europe, London and Italy
to be exact since early 1998.
And so if you don't believe that I exist, it means nothing to
me. I don't need you to validate my existence by including me
on your list of people to snipe. I am going to continue to finish
the job and investigation I started out to do and so is Will.
So, if you want to continue to rip him, or us now, knock yourself
out. You are not going to expose a scam, dear, because you cannot
expose something that does not exist. We aren't "believers"
either, Will and I. We work everyday trying to
prove ourselves wrong. Many times we can find plausible or semi-plausible
excuses for what could be happening up in our skies or coming
out of these low flying planes, but in the final analysis, they
are just that....excuses. I wonder, dear, do you have a plausible
excuse why C-130 Hercules airtransports are dropping bug powder
on US and Canadian homes? Any one will do.....feel free to write
me and let me know.
Ciao,
"Madame X"
>From: cen05897@centuryinter.net
>To: "Madame X"
>Subject: RE: Re: Will Thomas, Chemtrails et al
>Date: January 07, 2000
>
>"Madame X",
>I have never addressed you because I never believed you existed
and still do not
>necessarily do so.Until you present some credentials, I will
not.
>You see, I am not a "believer", except in reality
based on fact.
>
>My recent contact with ENS seems to have struck a raw nerve
indeed, for "Madame X" to
>come out of the woodwork and brush the "cobwebs"
out of her hair.Now you have something >new to worry about,
for I have learned that when I start getting return fire I am
indeed getting >close to the enemy. Beware, as I told William
Thomas - I am your worst nightmare, because I >know how to
do the research to find the truth, have the guts to tell the truth,
and the will to
>follow through to the end.
>Thomas has refused to debate me for one year now, that should
tell you something about
>the true state of affairs, it's reality.
>And if you believe anyone could pay me to do what I do, you
know little about what
>true love for your fellow human really is.
>The chemtrail scam you guys started is just about over, you
will all be exposed. The
>truth cuts deeper than any steel, I just hope you can handle
the reality when it
>finally hits you.
>JR
===================================================
Third message received: 1/8/2000
Dear Jay,
You are partially right when you say that, to date, 'no medical
reports, material analysis, documentable evidence'.....has shown
a connection to contrails and illness. That's because the reaction
that's set off is like an allergic reaction, it causes a host
of symptoms which are identifiable with several disease processes....coughing,
sneezing, headaches, stiff neck, sore throat, earaches, shortnes
of breath, etc. You are however, absolutely wrong when you say
there is no documentable evidence that JP-8 fuel causes any health
problems. OSHA did an extensive study of ground crews
working with JP-8 and found that they had almost identical symptoms
to what people who claim to have "contrail" illness
have, i.e., a prolonged and hacking cough, headaches, sore throats,
watery eyes, etc....so, for someone who says they have the means
at their disposal to do the research necessary to tell "the
truth" as you call it, you certainly are lacking in some
crucial information. There are many "contrail" websites
on the internet, many of which have boiled my blood with wrong
information that was attributed toWill Thomas. People take someone
else's words and many times interpret them with their own agenda
behind it. Ethylene dibromide was an issue that some of these
people chose to take and say whatever they thought was the case.
What Will Thomas said publicly is that whatever the purpose of
these unusual contrails are, people are reporting getting ill
from them. You need to sift through what other people are interpreting
and writing on web sites as "what Will Thomas said",
and what actually came out of his mouth. Our information doesn't
include statements that ethylene dibromide is a chemical warfare
agent. Its an additive in jet fuel. Besides, it was supposed to
have been taken out of fuel several years ago, however, whether
that action actually occurred is hard to say.
You are right when you say those with factual information have
a moral obligation to inform the nation.....that's exactly what
we've been working on, presenting "factual information",
but that factual information also involves indentifying the cause
as well.
You are way off when you say there are no "sky samples"
because they don't exist, we refuse to show them....etc. Who would
we be showing them to? Is there a grand opening somewhere that
we need to present these samples in person? Do doctors take biopsy
samples to medical boards
and present them as "factual information"? No, they
take the reports. They give the information thats contained in
the report. The actual samples exist,
Jay, I personally collected them several of them and the others
were sent to me. All were tested at a reputable lab. So, again,
you don't have your "factual information" correct. You
haven't exposed any scam involving C-130s or anything else, nor
will you. What in God's name would be the
benefit derived from creating such a story? Financial gain? Public
glory? Federal punishment? I still did not see your "plausible
excuse" for such activity. Because you don't have one.You
talk and talk and talk and try to come on like this whomever-appointed
authority on everything and you actually know very little of what
you have taken upon yourself to so zealously refute.
Best regards,
"Madame X"
--------
>From: cen05897@centuryinter.net
>To: "Madame X"
>Subject: RE: RE: Oh, dear, Jay, really/Will Thomas, Chemtrails
et al
>Date: January 07, 2000
>so, the new scam is C-130s? I'm still waiting to see the "hundreds"
of photos showing "tankers", >and any of your so-called
"sky samples" that you refuse to show because they don't
exist. You >have been caught and exposed, I will continue to
present the truth to the public.
>As I said in my very first article on 3/1/99:
>
>"Contrail formation mechanisms are ordinary and contrails
themselves are increasing
>in number as a result of increased air traffic. Reports of
persistent contrails are
>within what is known to be naturally possible. Contrail studies
are underway which
>will increase our knowledge of their causes, frequency, and
effects. High altitude
>contrails are not consistent with effective dispersal of chemical
or biological
>agents. No known toxic or harmful components have been proven
to be in JP-8+100 fuel.
>Ethylene dibromide is not a viable chemical warfare agent
when delivered through jet
>engine combustion. No medical reports, material analysis,
or documentable and
>confirmable evidence has been presented which supports the
hypothesis that chemical
>or biological agents are currently being delivered or can
be associated with jet
>contrails. There is a threat to Americans from germ and chemical
warfare, and
>vigilance should be maintained. Speculation and rumor without
factual and specific
>information can only dull that vigilance. Those with factual
information have a moral
>obligation to publicize those facts, but those who "cry
wolf" are not acting in the
>best interest of this nation."
>
>I am still waiting for anyone to fulfill that moral obligation.
>I am doing my part.
>
>JR
=========================================
Fourth message received: 1/8/2000
Jay,
First of all, if you are going to communicate with me and ask
me questions, which is fine, you will accord me the same respect
I have you, i.e. you address me by my name, and you speak respectfully.
I address you by your name, and I try to address you in a professional,
civilized manner. Therefore, you will not use my private e-mail
address to take this bullying, sniping tone with me. You accuse
me of lying when many times it appears that it is your interpretation
of what you are reading that is incorrect. So, if you want to
have a legitimate, civilized conversation with me, ask me questions,
fine. Otherwise, if you can't do that, do not expect an answer
from me, as I do not respond to any man, or woman, who does not
accord me any respect, demands answers from me, and insults me
in the process. You remark about "flakes and lunatics"
and yet your remarks are dangerously near that category as well.
Deal?
Now, to answer your questions, remarks:
1) I agree that the 'chemtrails' illness that people report getting
after exposure can be attributed to other things.....can, that
doesn't mean necessarily is. I have long wanted to be able to
test chemtrails emissions to see what exactly is present in them
and correlate it with reported illnesses. To date, we have been
unable to get any scientific data in that vein. What Will Thomas
has reported is not his own summation, rather, he is reporting
what people all over the country have told him, i.e., that when
they have been outdoors underneath one of these "trails",
they have experienced these symptoms. As for myself, I personally
experienced the same symptoms twice using myself
as a guinea pig. You can't psychologically mimic green phlegm,
strep throat infection, to do it twice would require a miracle
I am incapaple of performing.
2) The EDB as additive, component. Well, there seems to be some
conflict of facts here. Whatever, I don't feel that it is the
causative agent in these illnesses. As I mentioned, it was reported
that EDB was taken out of fuel, go to the Army's website and I'll
let you do a search on it yourself.
3) Larry Harris.....I don't know the man, I never spoke to him.
Whether he's a racist or not, I wouldn't know. I do not support
racism, nor does Will Thomas. In any form.
4) Sante Fe New Mexican newspaper remarks: I never saw those remarks.
If you have, send them to me. I never said them. I was not in
Sante Fe at that conference. I am not "holding out"
for pay from anyone, Jay. You're right, that would not be morally
responsible. I've been doing this entire investigation, as has
Will Thomas, for free because I felt morally responsible to help
an older
woman neighbor whose house was bombarded by this junk from a C-130
plane, and you can call it a scam if you want, but its not. No
one has paid me anything in this investigation, not Will Thomas,
not anyone. I have funded my own research with my own money that
I get from my job as a medical editor that has nothing to do with
Chemtrails, or anything else I do. They will be made public information
as soon as I get the rest of the information from them that I
need. I am in the process of having all the sets re-analyzed using
different technology to analyze them for other components that
I believe may have been missed first time around.
5) ENS paying for samples mentioned in "sky samples analyzed"....absolutely
not. They did not pay for them. I did.Will Thomas reimbursed me
for one set of lab tests early on, which ENS may have given him
as part of research funds. I am not associated with ENS. What
ENS is referring to in the paragraph you cited is that they would
be willing to pay for additional testing of chemtrails emissions.
6) People crying out for answers. I know this. So am I. That's
why I haven't given up on finding them in the face of extreme
adversity and threats from people I've never met and know nothing
about what I am doing. Because I seemed to have "crawled
out of the woodwork with my cobwebs in my hair " to address
you is not because you must be "close to the enemy"
etc, as you put it, but because I have spent a year of my own
time, my own money, my own everything to help people who can't
get answers from the people who are in place to give the answers,
(i.e., the
EPA, the FBI, the DOD). And I've done that in the shadows, for
the most part, because I want the REAL answers, not the hype.
Maybe you want to find the real answers too, and maybe you're
not a paid disinformation person like everyone says you are, and
if that's true, lobbing the verbal hand grenades that you do is
not going to help anyone find any answers, you just confuse people
even more with the inflammatory rhetoric you post on these web
sites, etc.
7) The gain: Financial, public glory, federal punishment. Will
Thomas is not a rich man. If anyone knows this, it is me. He has
made absolutely no money to speak of off of Chemtrails, other
than some lectures that paid him to come and talk to people. Public
glory, well, depends on how you look at it. Obviously people know
him, they don't know me from Adam (or Eve), and I'm not interested
in that. The federal punishment I speak of refers to what we get
for putting out such an erroneous story about C-130 Hercules military
planes if it were not true. Not that either one
of wants to punish the federal government - again, you read the
meaning of those words incorrectly. I am not conspiratorialist.
I vote, I pay taxes, I don't attend radical antigovernment agenda
meetings, etc. Its like I said, Jay. I got into looking for the
answers because some very normal, nice, everyday people, came
to me and asked me to help them when no one else was listening,
and just blew the off with the most ridiculous explanations of
what these planes were doing unloading this junk on
their houses. I have several eyewitnesses who have seen them do
their thing and when the time is right they will come forward
and speak alongside me. This is not the right time for that and
that is all I am going to relate to you on that matter as the
rest of it has to necessarily stay confidential for a while longer
so that I may get the rest of the answers I need. You don't seem
to understand something. This is not your average somebody's causing
an environmental problem type of situation. This is something
much more complicated than that. The people behind this, I don't
think, will ever be held accountable.
8) Our own misery.....well, I'd have to agree with you on that
score. We did get ourselves into this. But not to scam people,
to try and help solve a problem. Believe me, Jay, the people who
have had this gunk hit their houses do not believe it is a scam.
No way in hell do they believe that. So, if you want to persist
in believing this paranoid scam theory, well, not much else I
can say on that matter, except you're way wrong. There are I feel
alot of answers no one knows yet and until if and when we do maybe
a lot of the information we get is disnformation. That's possible.
We have gotten some erroneous information from people who seemed
like credible sources, and I'm not talking about
LW Harris. Woodward and Bernstein got a lot of bad information
in their disclosure of Watergate until the final analysis when
it all came out in the wash, as it will here eventually. I am
not a liar and I am not a scam artist. I don't believe Will Thomas
is either. I'm not holding out for money from anyone. If I am
holding out for anything it is for more information as I want
to have a complete set of answers that I can give people rather
than bits and pieces here and there. Money has nothing to do with
it.If you have read that somewhere that I supposedly said that,
send it to me. They're not my words. Like I said, neither of us
has gained anything from doing this, either financially or publicly.
Will has made a few dollars but they have only barely covered
a few expenses. Nothing in the black, for sure. And me, I haven't
received a few dollars. Nothing and no one has covered any of
my expenses and I have made some expensive trips around this the
US and Canada gathering information, attending information gathering
conferences, videotaping eyewitnesses, and collecting lab samples.
If you call that a scam, well, whatever.
Shalom,
"Madame X"
>From: cen05897@centuryinter.net
>To: "Madame X"
>Subject: RE: RE: Factual information, Chemtrails et al
>Date: January 07, 2000
>
>>OSHA did an extensive study of ground crews working with
JP-8 and found that they had >>almost identical symptoms
to what people who claim to have "contrail" illness
have, i.e., a >>prolonged and hacking cough, headaches,
sore throats, watery eyes, etc...
>Cite the study.
>Prove the exposure from your alleged 'chemtrails'.
>Show such effects on anyone other than those with occupational
exposure.
>I would be impressed.
>The symptoms you describe can have a multitude of causes,
to attribute them to putative, >unproven 'chemtrails' is a
leap of logic unsupportable by any scientific reasoning and is
easily seen >through by anyone with intelligence. It is believeable
only by those who are 'believers', not by >those who are rational,
critical thinkers.
>> Our information doesn't include statements that ethylene
dibromide is a chemical warfare agent.
>"Sky samples analyzed" quotes a convicted felon,
LWH, that EDB is in JP-8 fuel, and does not >include any analysis.
Harris is a flake, and a lunatic racist.Show the analysis.
>"HOSPITALS JAMMED AS BANNED PESTICIDE IS SPRAYED FROM
THE SKIES" >says, "Ethylene dibromide is a key component
of JP8."
>I know Thomas wrote this, not you, but it is a lie, totally
untrue.
>>Its an additive in jet fuel.
>That is incorrect.What is your source for that statement?Cite
the source.
>EDB has never been either a component or an additive in jet
fuel.You are both repeating a false >rumor, a lie, which is
all that 'chemtrails' are based on. You have had to do this because
a lie must >be backed up with more lies, while the truth would
set you free. You have only yourself to blame >for your own
misery, but you both are to blame for the misery you have caused
in others who >follow you blindly.
>I have exposed the lie to the truth, come out of the lie,
"Madame X", that is the only way you can ever >be
free.
>> Besides, it was supposed to have been taken out of fuel
several years ago, however, whether >>that action actually
occurred is hard to say.
>That is incorrect, what is your source for that statement?
>Cite the source(it is a lie).
>> You are way off when you say there are no "sky samples"
because they don't exist, we refuse to >>show them....etc.
Who would we be showing them to? Is there a grand opening somewhere
that >>we need to present these samples in person? Do doctors
take biopsy samples to medical boards >>and present them
as "factual information"? No, they take the reports.
They give the information >>thats contained in the report.
The actual samples exist, Jay, I personally collected them several
of >>them and the others were sent to me. All were tested
at a reputable lab.
>Show the reports. Thomas told the Santa Fe New Mexican Newspaper
you would only do so
>if paid, is this what you call being morally responsible??
>(6/20/99, pg E1) "My colleague and I["Madame X"]
will release the name of our lab and >detailed analysis as
soon as we find a publisher willing to pay us for many months
of research- and >reimburse those lab tests."
>Sunny Lewis wrote a correspondent: "ENS has also offered
to pay for a lab test to identify the >substance or substances
that may be emitted by planes in their contrails IF a reliable
sampling >source can be found. Mr Thomas is coordinating the
effort to find that sample or samples."
>Did ENS not pay for the alleged sample that the article "Sky
Samples Analyzed" is based on?
>Look, "Madame X", people are crying out for answers,
if you are holding out for money,
>that is what I call a scam.
>> What in God's name would be the benefit derived from
creating such a story? Financial gain?
>> Public glory? Federal punishment?
>All the above are part of William Thomas' agenda.
>You hit the nail right on the head.
==============================================
Fifth message received: 1/9/2000
Jay,
Thank you for sending me the articles from Sante Fe. I did not
make the statements listed there. What I believe Will was referring
to, although you are correct, that by the words used it
would be hard to glean this, is that I did not, and still do not
at this moment, want the name of the lab revealed because I did
not want them hounded by media people. Like Will said, and I believe
this too, if that had occurred early in the testing, there is
no way they would have done any further testing for me. So, I
necessarily kept their name quiet. However, that will not always
be the case. You're an engineer, apparently, and I don't think
you have done any investigative journalism so that you would know
that sometimes you have to protect your sources for a period of
time in order to get more answers. It would be great if everyone
were honest and people didn't harass others but this is not the
world we live in. That is what I believe Will was referring to
when he made those
statements. But, its never been my intention to withold information
until someone pays me for it. Thats ridiculous.
2) You are quite correct when you say that many of the organisms
cited from samples are quite naturally found in soil. They are!
There's no secret or misinformation about that. Every bacteria,
virus, fungus, mold, in existence is God made, not man made. Of
course they exist naturally in nature. The point here is that
these samples were not taken from soil. They were taken off of
houses that were splattered from airplanes. The material came
out of an airplane not from the rain even. However, what is crucial
to understand about these samples is this: The mixture of several
such organisms together would not be necessarily found occurring
together in soil. The people who tested the samples thought it
highly unusual and commented to me that some of these organisms
were not usually even found in outside samples and when I told
them it came out of a plane, they were very surprised and their
best guess was that it was a biohazard material from some lab
somewhere that somehow got out of plane carrying them. You say
that the organisms found were not listed, or named - they were.
3) You need to know this definitively, as it seems you don't.
I did not set out to create a lie or scam for anyone. I've already
told you how I got into this and I don't want to go over that
again. There are alot of ifs and inconsistencies with illnesses
reported, what people claim are chemtrails, which many times are
normal contrails, and just the hysteria factor here. People go
outside, they see perhaps a normal contrail, a day or so later
they come down with a cold, they jump up and down and say, They
got me! I have chemtrail illness, when obviously that is a very
long leap of the imagination. I fully agree with you that there
is a lot of scientific data lacking in what people report as chemtrails
sightings, illness, et al. But until somebody goes up there and
grabs a few of these "trails" in an aerosol collector,
well, no one will ever know for sure, will they?
4) My guinea pig test. Of course this not a scientific test, Jay.
I mentioned it only as a sort of thumbnail sketch that I wanted
to see if what these people were reporting had any validity at
all. So, one day back in May 1999, I went out on my bike and happened
to see one of these particularly voluminous vertical contrails
that was spreading out horizontally at a rapid rate, yet maintaining
its density, strangely. I continued to ride my bike for an hour.
As I was out, I started sneezing (I am very allergic to many things),
and feeling tight up in my chest (I don;t have asthma). My nose
started running. My eyes watering. I went home. Later that night,
I started getting a sore throat. Well, the next morning, I woke
up I had one of the worst sore throats of my life, so bad, I couldn;t
swallow, the left side was so swollen. I lost my voice. This persisted
for a few days and I then went to my doctor who told me I had
strep throat and gave me antibiotics which I took for three weeks,
instead of the normal 10 days, as it took that long to get rid
of. Some time later in July, I was out again riding my bike and
noted one of these similar "trails". The same symptoms
occurred, only to a lesser severity than the first time. Later
that night, I came down with another sore throat, and again woke
with it. This time, it was much less severe in soreness, but persisted
for days. I again went to the doctor and he said my throat was
very inflamed, and the left lymph node was badly swollen. More
antibiotics, which I only need to stake for 10 days this time.
Is this demonstratable, scientific proof of chemtrails illness?
I don;t know. I mention it only as highly coincidental.
5) I have no problem or ego attached to retracting any statements
made that may sometime later turn out to be wrong. So, when you
say you are too deep into this and can't get out. I can get out
at any time I want. All I have to do is know that something is
erroneous information and I have no problem telling anyone that
that is the case. I don't have that information at present.
6) The houses I mentioned hit with "crud" were not hit
by crop dusters. Not at all. I have several eyewitnesses who actually
saw the plane drop this on their property in one instance and
a neighbors property in another instance. Unless the USDA has
taken to using C-130 Hercules transports as crop dusters these
days, those were not crop dusters, Jay. Not at all. They were
unmarked, military-looking dolphin gray, very low flying, about
50 to 100 feet off the ground. If you know anything about C-130s
they were perfected in Vietnam for dropping materiel in heights
that low to the ground. They can do it. Why were they dropping
bug powder out of them, I don't know. At first I wondered if it
were their fuel tanks that had bacterial sludge in them and somehow
this junk was coming out. But, as a NASA contact related to me,
there's no way that the fuel tank would empty junk of that volume.
The fuel lines would clog first and then the plane just would
not get any fuel
to its engines. In short, it wouldn't fly. If it was something
dropped from a back rampart, someone would have had to direct
it. In short, the pilot and/or someone on board would know that
they are jettisoning something onto this house. Don't you think?
7) The EDB mess. You say it was an additive in aviation gasoline.
Thats a broad field, Jay. JP-8 is primarily rocket fuel these
days with the lower grades being used for commercial liners, however,
JP-8 is still used by military jets (I am told by someone who
writes DOD manuals). As far as Larry Harris goes, I know that
the man is a chemist and he has put out a few manuals on how to
make biological warfare items. If what he said about EDB is wrong,
well, I will look into that more completely, and change that if
necessary.
8) Again, I am not participating in, nor have I been duped into
believing anything. I make up own mind. My mind is not clear on
the chemtrails illness phenomena and thus am not sure what I believe
about that. I have interviewed lots of people who "claim"
that they became sick while under one of these trails. They gave
symptoms identical to the ones I experienced. Does that make a
litmus paper test for truth, I don't really think so, but like
I said, until we can get someone to go up there and do some aerosol
testing, we just don't know, and I don't how you can say with
surety that you know either. There's no tests to prove either
way. I have told Will this many times, and to refrain from making
absolute statements about contrails and their illnesses and what
the intent of chemtrails are until there's some real testing done.
However, I have asked the aerosol research branch of the military
at Aberdeen Proving Ground if they think these are normal contrails
and they tell me that they do appear different than others and
hang out in the sky much longer than the should. So, it
seems there are differing opinions in different branches of the
military.
9) If Will Thomas has lied to me, about anything, and I find it
out beyond a shadow of a doubt, I will take him to task for it.
In the past, I have been his worst critic, even more stringent
than you, because I don't want my name on anything that is incorrect
and I don't want his/our credibility to suffer because of it,
so as far as I know, he has assured me that he has checked out
to the best of his ability claims that people have made and information
given to him. If you sent him info regarding EDB that he seemingly
ignored, that may be because he has information to the contrary
and chose to go with that source. Like I said, your delivery in
how you present yourself and your ideas is not very conducive
to wanting to engage in a conversation with you, or give any credence
to "facts" that you cite. You can't beat people over
the head with your words, insult their intentions, etc, and then
expect them to believe what you are telling them. I chose to write
to you because I am very curious what all this noise is about
and why you go on with such fury regarding it. On the surface,
you
make yourself appear as a zealous fanatic with their own axe to
grind. When you tone yourself down, you have come across in a
slightly better light to me, so I am willing to at least meet
you halfway and address what you are concerned about. I appreciate
your concerns here, Jay, I hear what you are saying, and in many
instances I agree and you are 100% correct. But because that is
true, don't assume that I am participating in calling Will Thomas
a liar or a scam artist. I'm not. I believe, truly, that he set
out to answer a question, address a claim that was given to him
by a man up in Washington State and set out to do so. If there
are discrepancies between what some people call facts and others
do, well, you find that in any story, Jay. Theres a lot of bad
hysteria attached to this which has made it hard to glean the
"facts". I don't believe that commercial planes are
doing any of this, and if some wacko launches a terrorist attack
against a commercial airline thinking they are responsible for
"contrail illness", that would be a horrible tragedy.
I do not want that to happen. There are many people out there
with varying degrees of intelligence and common sense. Some
people will take an issue and just latch onto out of their own
ignorance. I don't want any "believers", Jay. I want
people to seriously question what this whole issue is about, don't
make half-assed claims that they went outside and got a cold,
and, oh, yeah, they saw a plane fly overhead that left a contrail.
Thats not what should be taking place here. Unfortunately, a lot
of that has gotten into this. That's why this story has not wrapped
up yet, because there are still many things to know, and I hope
we can get more answers than we have right now.
Best regards,
"Madame X"
>From: cen05897@centuryinter.net
>To: "Madame X"
>Subject: RE: RE: Factual information, Chemtrails et al
>Date: January 08, 2000
> Now, to answer your questions, remarks:
>> 1) I agree that the 'chemtrails' illness that people
report getting after exposure
>> can be attributed to other things.....can, that doesn't
mean necessarily is. I
>>have long wanted to be able to test chemtrails emissions
to see what exactly
>> is present in them and correlate it with reported illnesses.
To date, we have
>> been unable to get any scientific data in that vein.
What Will Thomas has
>> reported is not his own summation, rather, he is reporting
what people all
>> over the country have told him, i.e., that when they
have been outdoors
>> underneath one of these "trails", they have
experienced these symptoms.
>This is a typical ploy used by one who makes unsupported
claims. They try to deflect
>anyone who notices that their speculation has no basis by
placing the blame on people
>whom they have influenced by that speculation, their followers,
merely by quoting the
>"testimony" of others who likewise have no data
to support THEIR speculation. I
>believe that if you surveyed OTHER people in those areas you
will find no correlation
>at all.
>> As for myself, I personally experienced the same symptoms
twice using myself
>> as a guinea pig. You can't psychologically mimic green
phlegm, strep throat
>> infection, to do it twice would require a miracle I am
incapaple of performing.
>How you make the leap from a streptococcal infection to areal spraying is a geat leap. It is well >known that strep bacteria is part of normal human flora. I am sure you know this.
>> 2) The EDB as additive, component. Well, there seems to be some conflict of facts here. >>Whatever, I don't feel that it is the causative agent in these illnesses. As I mentioned, it was >>reported that EDB was taken out of fuel, go to the Army's website and I'll let you do a search on >>it yourself.
>Yes, there is a conflict there. You and Thomas have affixed your names to an article that is >incorrect, false, and based on a rumor from Larry Wayne Harris, whom you quote in the article. >Your name is on the byline. YOU say this. YOU have an obligation to do legitimate research, and >if you had, you would have found out about the man YOU quote. He pops up on each and every >search engine in the world. It is impossible to have missed him.
>Regarding EDB, it was an additive to aviation gasoline and leaded gasoline for cars, it was never >and has never been used in jet fuel whatsoever. If you had done legitimate research you would >have found out about that. YOU reported this false information. YOUR name is on the byline.
>> 4) Sante Fe New Mexican newspaper remarks: I never saw those remarks. If you have, send >>them to me. I never said them. I was not in Sante Fe at that conference.
>The entire article is attached below. I have it hard copy also.
>It should have become apparent to you by now, as I have known for quite some time, that William >Thomas has a problem with the truth. He also shares a problem in common with all liars, and that >is that he must lie by omisssion as well as in fact. He has omitted knowledge of what he said in >Santa Fe because he is hiding the truth from you.
>He knows exactly who Larry Wayne Harris is. He knows exactly the facts about EBD, because I >told him all about it. If you truly don't know these things, that should demonstrate to you that he >has lied to you as well. I know that he has been removed as a reporter for ENS for lying. I do not >know exactly what lie he told them, but it must have been a whopper.
>He currently is displaying on his webpage an article with the ENS byline with an altered title, one >which they would not have approved- "Mystery Contrails: Poison from the Skies". ENS is pretty >pissed about that. Previously he affixed the ENS byline to his article, one which they did not >approve, titled "Hospitals Jammed", ENS was pissed about that one, too. These are more >examples of deception I have found.
>Thomas knows that real water vapor contrails can spread and persist, he wrote an article about >them years before 'chemtrails'. Any research on cirrus clouds shows that they refract light, yet in >his article "Hospitals Jammed" he wrote:" EDB is 6.5-times heavier than air. Unlike normal >contrails, the thick white streamers being sprayed from downward-pointing tailbooms over at least >39 states does not dissipate, but spreads into an overcast that refracts a purple color in sunlight >and appears suddenly as an oily film in puddles and ponds."
>These and many more examples show me without a shadow of a doubt the actions of a dishonest >person, a person not interested in the true facts, but someone on a mission. I have told him so >many times, he knows the truth and so does anyone else who follows my research.
>I urge you to examine my website, follow each and every link I cite. Sit down and think about >what he has told you, compare it to the truth you will know by then, and do what is right.
>Perhaps a crop duster plane did spill something on a house as you say. But the contrails seen in >the photos on all the websites are just that, water vapor, and that is the truth. I believe you know >this to be true already, but are afraid to admit it, because you are in so deep, and find this reality >threatens what you believe to be a true incident.
>The problem is, that by not admitting to this, and making the necessary corrections, you are >leaving your readers with a false belief, you are party to their state of fear, and in part could be >responsible for their actions. Think about that.
>The other problem is that William Thomas has destroyed his career through his own actions. Don't >be a party to his downfall.
>I have met with such deception on this issue that I cannot trust anyone.I apologize for unkind >personal remarks I made to you previously. Your first message rather challenged by forbearance >and I perhaps responded too vigorously. You appear to be genuinely deceived, and I hope you >can come to grips with reality, and if true, solve the mystery you found in Pennsylvania.
>By the way, you can absolutely identify almost all contrail
planes overhead by use of a simple >sofware program that allows
you access to Air Traffic Control radar data. No, not military,
just >commercial, but we are trying to solve a "mystery"
aren't we? I used this and found they were >normal commercial
flights, which my neighbors were reporting as chemtrails.
>see: http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/fe/review.html
>If Will Thomas did not tell you about this, ask yourself , why?
Jay Reynolds
===========================================
Sixth message received: 1/9/2000
From: "Madame X"
To: Jay Reynolds
Jay,
To answer you in brief, as I don't have all my notes in front
of me. Also, let me say
this: These e-mails between us are just that. If I see any of
what you and I have been talking about
appear on your web site, in excerpts, or in paraphrase, in any
such manner that it appears that Will Thomas' colleague "Madame
X" participating in slamming him and debunking him along
with you, so help me, Jay, you will have a serious problem on
your hand. That's like wire tapping, its illegal. I am not giving
you consent to use these private e-mails for public consumption.
These are answers to your questions only. If I feel I need to
publicly clarify information that's already out there, I will.
I am trying to help straighten out a problem, not create more
of one. I am trying to extend to you a professional courtesy in
answering all your questions.
>Unfortunately, you have followed someone who "assured"
you they were correct, and have not checked many things out for
yourself. I have seen and documented enough deception within the
chemtrail story to know more than you do about many aspects. No,
I have not "followed" anyone. I have checked out on
my own everything that has gone into every article that has my
name on them and those that don't. I am not brainwashed or lead
by anyone, including Will Thomas. The deception that you think
you see appears to me to be a problem with clarity of presentation
of
facts, not the facts per se. For example, the JP-8 issue: I clearly
stated that I was aware that JP-8 fuel is used in military jets
and you come back slamming that JP-8 is used in ALL military jets.
I was told, by a person who writed DOD manuals and has asked me
to keep her name out of this story, that JP-8 fuel was to be discontinued,
and all mention of it is being "struck" from DOD manuals,
however, they continue to use it. The OSHA study I cited is from
March 1998. JP-8, as I was told by my NASA contact, was and still
is as far as he knew, a UN designated fuel used primarily in their
planes. It is also used by NASA as it has a very low flash point,
as rocket fuel.
>People have been operating off your information with no
documentation. Since I find
>Thomas to not be a credible source, your documentation as
unverifiable
What exactly are you saying here, Jay? People have been operating
off your information....let me ask you a question. When Woodward
and Bernstein did Watergate investigation, and came up with their
Deep Throat source, who is STILL UNKNOWN to the public, were people
not operating off Deep Throat's information without documentation?
Uh, huh, and a whole presidency came down with it. Did people
accuse Woodward and Bernstein of creating a lie and scam to undermine
a presidency? We still don't know who Deep Throat was or if any
such person ever existed! Even now, Carl Bernstein won't give
up his name. You need to get off this total documentation subject....just
like my friend who writes the manuals for DOD and asked me to
leave their name out of all this. Does that mean this person doesn't
exist? Does that mean I can't use their information? You're playing
a harp that's out of tune, here Jay. Some documentation of statements
were necessarily left vague because the people involved in making
them did not want to be quoted or involved. Does that mean its
a lie and scam? Does that info get lost? No, I don't think so.
>Then what is this?
>"Also isolated in our sample was a fluorescent-type of
bacteria found in distant
>coral reefs, which can be used as a "marker" in
lab tests.Another bacillus contained a "restriction >enzyme"
used in research laboratories to "restrict" or cut DNA
material for transfer to other >organisms. A computer search
for this usually benign bacteria turned up Streptomyces and P.
>flourescens on the same reference page - as well as the American
Type Tissue Culture >Corporation."
>What is this?
>"Streptomyces was again found, as well as a bacteria
capable of causing a painful ear infection."
>"Three other molds in this second sample included a "black
yeast" stockpiled by the U.S. Army as >a "bioremediation
organism" that thrives on TNT and petroleum spills."
>The above quotes from your article leaves three bacterium
unnamed.
>It also leaves three mold unnamed, and uses only a the non-specific
term "black
>yeast".
I gave Will all this information and as soon as I have time to
pull my notes out and find the names again, you can have them.
Will wrote the descriptive terms for most of these organisms thinking
that the majority of people would not know how to pronounce their
nomenclature names, and/or recognize them (even my doctor who
is an ENT specialist didn't know the name of the organism that
causes otitis media, the ear infection see below, how would the
average reader even understand it). I would think you should know
when you write for newspapers that you aim your language at about
a 6th grade vocabulary level. If this is what you're terming as
deliberate deception and scam, you have a problem, Jay.
A: ) Painful ear infection - Turicella otitidis - bacteria in
otitis media (ear infections).
B:) Black yeast - Nigrospora species
C) "Organism found in distant coral reefs" - Vibrio
splendidus 2, these are fluorescent bacteria that are found in
coral reefs and "light up" them up giving them their
vivid "day glo" color. Its found in deep sea water,
marine.
D) The organism that Army has stockpiled for bioremediation :
Aureobasidium pullans. Also, pseudomonas fluorescens. Go to the
Army's web site and do a search on them. You'll be there all night.
E) Restriction enzymes. These are found in virtually all bacteria.
All this term means is that it has the ability to cut into another
bacterium to "splice" DNA together. This technique is
done to study certain rungs of the DNA ladder of specific organisms.
It is how "cloning" is done. It is how hybrids are created.
>I have been investigating all my life, think clearly and logically,
and have an inquisitive nature and >widely varied interests.
I am currently Bureau Chief for the Central Region of the US for
Veritas >News Service, and have been doing this for three years.
Why does information about you, then, term you as an "engineer
from Arkansas"? Are you lying and scamming people, Jay?
>I am aware he is collecting $10k for such a project, but find
the lack of prior disclosure >demonstrates a lack of sincerety
on the part of William Thomas, who has never shown any >documented
evidence of anything whatsoever, has a history of reporting false
information, and >would not ever suggest him being trusted
again.In short, he has no credibility. That is apparrently >why
he has been discharged from ENS.
Lack of sincerity? By what means are you measuring that? Prior
disclosure regarding what exactly, Jay? The names of some bacteria
organisms?Documented evidence? History of reporting false information?
Please cite for me, show me this history. I'm not aware of it.
I know why Will was discharged, as you term it, from ENS, and
I won't comment on that because that's Will's personal life.
>By the way, I understand he was on Art Bell 2 nights ago still
promoting the false EDB stuff along >with a newcomer.The new
chemtrail theory he is promoting is that P Flourescens is trying
to eat >EDB to solve ozone depletion. Check it out yourself.
Yeah, I know he was on Art Bell with the bioremediation person.
Well, let me ask you this, do you know for sure that bioremediation
is not being done in our skies? If so, I think you ought to again
check out the Army website and do a search on bioremediation.
Again, you will spend a lot of time there, because there is a
lot of information regarding bioremediation, and I would not be
at all surprised if the DOD is working on bioremediation to clean
up the upper atmosphere. I went to a conference last June at Aberdeen
Proving Ground and that was their prime concern, how global warming
has created so many problems, even for aerosol testing of determining
possible biological warfare attacks.
>> 4) My guinea pig test. Is this demonstratable, scientific
proof of chemtrails illness? I don;t know.
>Well, I know it is not. And so do you. Why did you not survey
others with the same exposure?
Are you referring to people in my area? Or people in general?
I have surveyed all kinds of people who claim to have been ill
with chemtrails symptoms. In my area, I brought the subject up
to my ENT and he told me that he had seen an increase in patients
who were suffering from the same symptoms, strep throat, as I
and that indeed it was "going around" at that time.
I told him about the "chemtrails" story I was working
on and showed him pictures and he thought it was fascinating.
I asked him to ask his patients who came in with similar complaints/diagnosis
as mine if they were aware of any unusual looking clouds or contrails.
The problem is that most people don't know what the word contrail
means. He didn't even really know until I explained it to him.
Concomitantly, he did not collect the data I asked for of his
patients, except to say that yes he has had a lot of patients
with those symptoms/diagnoses. I even drew up a questionnaire
for him to give them and it never was done.
>> 5) I have no problem or ego attached to retracting any
statements made that may
>> sometime later turn out to be wrong. So, when you say
you are too deep into this and can't get >>out. I can get
out at any time I want. All I have to do is know that something
is erroneous >>information and I have no problem telling
anyone that that is the case. I don't have that >>information
at present.
>"Madame X", you better start, because though you
may not realize it yet, you are deeply
>involved with your name attached to some false information.
I am totally convinced that what you term as "false information"
is really just not information
that has not been presented to your specifications of clarity.
If the bacteria/mold/fungus
organisms omission of the nomenclature names, even though they
were identified descriptively,
is an example of what you think is "false or deceptive"
information, I think you're stressing
yourself, and everyone else out for no good reason. It sounds
like in many instances, that
different points of opinion on what is fact translates to you
as deliberate deception and scam.
>> 6) The houses I mentioned hit with "crud" were
not hit by crop dusters. Not at all.
>> I have several eyewitnesses who actually saw the plane
drop this on their property in one >>instance and a neighbors
property in another instance. Unless the USDA has taken to using
>>C-130 Hercules transports as crop dusters these days,
those were not crop dusters, Jay. Not >>at all. They were
unmarked, military-looking dolphin gray, very low flying, about
50 to 100 feet >>off the ground. If you know anything about
C-130s they were perfected in Vietnam for >>dropping materiel
in heights that low to the ground. They can do it. Why were they
dropping >>bug powder out of them, I don't know. At first
I wondered if it were their fuel tanks that had >>bacterial
sludge in them and somehow this junk was coming out. But, as a
NASA contact related >>to me, there's no way that the fuel
tank would empty junk of that volume. The fuel lines would >>clog
first and then the plane just would not get any fuel to its engines.
In short, it wouldn't fly. If it >>was something dropped
from a back rampart, someone would have had to direct it. In short,
>>the pilot and/or someone on board would know that they
are jettisoning something onto this >>house. Don't you think?
>What bug powder? Why was "corn meal" mentioned.
I note it was mentioned with no attribution >in your article.
Why was no attribution or a quotation given? These omissions are
hallmarks of >propaganda, not journalism. Did Thomas consult
you before putting your name on this article?
"Bug powder" is my term that I just used with you in
writing this, as a descriptive term. 'Corn meal' was mentioned,
and I do believe there was an attribution given to that as coming
from the original lab that tested it for the people in Pennsylvania.
That was the ridiculous answer they gave them. The reason, I believe,
that they told the residents of that sprayed house, "corn
meal", is because it contained Rhizomucor a mold found on
corn, or on bread sometimes. The problem here, Jay, is that many
of these organisms are found on decaying organic things (i.e,
food, humans, animals). So, could they have told her it was human
remains instead of corn meal? Yeah, could have. If this is what
you're terming as propaganda, Jay, you know, you are really, truly
stretching the yard here.
"Madame X"
===============================
On to the Second Part of "Conversations with "Madame X"