Conversations with "Madame X"
- Chemtrail Insider
The email messages below were initiated
by a person who is deeply involved
within those responsible for implanting and promoting the "chemtrail" idea.
To protect her identity, I have identified her as "Madame X" and present the unsolicited messages I have received in their entirety with the exception of her name, which in fact may also be a pseudonym.
She has refused permission for me to quote these messages. I do so not in an effort to disparage, defame, or violate privacy, but in order to accurately inform my readers of the way they have been convinced to believe falsely by this "chemtrail" promoter.
On 3/31/99, "Madame X" sent me a final message stating she believes my replies constitute "harassment". She also said, "You go right ahead and post all my e-mails to your website, sweetheart, no one will believe that they're real anyway, because as you said yourself, no one knows "MadameX" exists." I will not reply to further email messages sent by "Madame X".
I have asked her to, "Please end all correspondence with me immediately."
"Madame X" has been informed by me that the information she presented was false, and has not made the necessary retractions, or presented documentary evidence to the contrary, over the course of three months. In my continuing effort to provide accurate information, I must reveal to my readers the whole truth.
Careful reading of these messages will reveal
that this promoter of the "chemtrail" idea bases her
claims on unsupported conjecture, undocumented rumor, selective
omission, and blatantly false information. I will continue to
inform readers with more information as it becomes available.
First message received: 1/7/2000
Dear Mr. Reynolds,
For some time now I have read with great unease your disparaging comments regarding
my colleague, Will Thomas, and his manufactured Chemtrails phenomena, so you allege to anyone who reads your words.
Since February of 1999, I have been working with Will Thomas on the "chemtrails"
problem, having teamed with him from my own research which dates to November 1998. Will Thomas did not manufacture the Chemtrails, or unusual contrail activity, if you will, story. I have only known him to be an honest and credible person who sincerely is seeking the truth in the various explanations that have surfaced from many arenas regarding the contrails in question. That the USAF disavows any knowledge of the situation and explains them as "normal" is not surprising. I wonder if you know, however, that there are other branches of the US military, i.e. the aerosol and biological research divisions as well as factions of NASA who do not regard these low hanging, long lingering contrails as normal? I also wonder if you know, as you never seem to make mention of the fact, that there is another side to the high altitude "chemtrails" occurring concomitantly and that is a low altitude biologically laden powder that has been dropped on residential areas across the US and Canada from C-130 Hercules airplanes? You seem to take an overzealous delight in shooting holes in any explanation that Will, and I, have offered a sincerely questioning public. You seem to be under the impression that because he promotes Usana health supplements that he somehow created this entire chemtrail scheme as a way to boost his sales. You are dead wrong, and I resent, on behalf of my colleague's intentions, and mine, knowing full well the hours and days and months spent researching this phenomena that both he and I have done, your truly myopic synopsis of Will's desire to put a name and face on the strange X's and O's in the sky.
You cite a few people with some unusual backgrounds and associations as a "part" of Chemtrails story. When you are investigating a story of this nature, you are confronted by a number of people, some of them with unsavory backgrounds, and some of them with impeccable pedigrees. Both can add significant information to a story. I have been given information from people with impeccable pedigrees that when looked further into turned out to be totally erroneous. The idea, then, that Will perhaps met up with some fringe individuals who gave him some information is not a reflection of his intention to create a bogus story. So, for you to assert publicly that Will deliberately created and mislead people in a sort of "Emperor's New Clothes" story named Chemtrails, and then re-accuse the ENS for running his reports, is not only professionally incompetent it is just plain wrong. You have never mentioned my name, or any other of Will's many credible contributing investigators, in any of your Will Thomas smear campaigns which tells all of us who actually know Will Thomas that you obviously don't know everything there is to know about how Will works, or whom he gets
his information from, or how hard he works to truly research this subject which is a lot more than I can say for the petty slamming you engage in. You obviously have not done all your homework, dear Sir, if you, in all your pompous mud-slinging, haven't unturned my name in association with Will Thomas, as I have worked very closely with Will since February 1999 on this story. So, if you are going to hold him accountable for remarks made regarding biological "fallout" emanating from planes over America and Canada, you necessarily should have spoken to the source of where Will's words on that subject came from, and that would be me. So, don't be so cock sure of yourself thinking that you have looked into every nook and cranny and know it all about what's going on in our skies just because USAF doesn't corroborate the "unusual contrails" phenomena. That's like asking the Department of Defense to admit to the sarin nerve gas story. Once the genie's out of the bottle
and done some damage, no one wants to claim him as theirs.
That Will has not answered any of your slams is not surprising to me. He doesn't need to convince anyone of anything, although he will stand his own on any public debate. Will simply writes and speaks to that information that he has been given and that which he has found on his own. If, in some instances, that information later proves to be a misconception, he would be the first to elucidate it and admit it. But, he has never deliberately set out to misinform, disinform, or create a sensational story in order to either boost his Usana sales or to aggrandize himself.
You seem to be a competent wordsmith, and I wonder why you devote so much of your time to trying to dismantle the "Chemtrails" story and Will Thomas? Don't you have any other subject worthy of such unprofessional vitriole? Or is dismantling Will Thomas and his Chemtrails story your only job, financed by, hmm, well, let's see now, whom would that be, Mr. Reynolds?
Second message received: 1/7/2000
I worry for nothing, dear, and neither should you, because if you are truly out to find the truth, then you will eventually wind up on our side and stop this silly nonsense you've been engaging in. You make me laugh when you say we've created a scam. That's ludicrous. How could we possibly have
done that? Did we go up and make those strange marks in the sky? Did we rent C-130s and dust houses across the US and Canada with bug powder? I don't think so, dear. Return fire? Close to the enemy? Oh, dear Jay, you are silly with this, you know? You've been on the internet
I have a proposal for you. We can always use good and credible researchers.If you are as truly as good a researcher as you say you are and truly have the fire in you to tell the truth, come join us! Why be our worst nightmare when you can help unravel the problem and be part of the solution instead of performingthis lowly task of sniping at people who are only trying to solve a mystery?
By the way, whom would I present my credentials to, and why? I don't need to prove anything to you about who I am and what I do. I don't need to impress you or curry your favor or get your seal of approval. And neither does Will. What exactly are you wanting him to debate you about? Are you an expert on all this that I mention here? How many lab samples have you collected from these homes sprayed with biological laden crap? I started out doing this project to get an answer for a neighbor whose home was covered by fungus, mold, bacterial "crud" sprayed all over her home from a low flying military type plane. And since then, I've found that this phenomena has occurred all over the US and Canada and even some places in Europe, London and Italy to be exact since early 1998.
And so if you don't believe that I exist, it means nothing to me. I don't need you to validate my existence by including me on your list of people to snipe. I am going to continue to finish the job and investigation I started out to do and so is Will. So, if you want to continue to rip him, or us now, knock yourself out. You are not going to expose a scam, dear, because you cannot expose something that does not exist. We aren't "believers" either, Will and I. We work everyday trying to
prove ourselves wrong. Many times we can find plausible or semi-plausible excuses for what could be happening up in our skies or coming out of these low flying planes, but in the final analysis, they are just that....excuses. I wonder, dear, do you have a plausible excuse why C-130 Hercules airtransports are dropping bug powder on US and Canadian homes? Any one will do.....feel free to write me and let me know.
>To: "Madame X"
>Subject: RE: Re: Will Thomas, Chemtrails et al
>Date: January 07, 2000
>I have never addressed you because I never believed you existed and still do not
>necessarily do so.Until you present some credentials, I will not.
>You see, I am not a "believer", except in reality based on fact.
>My recent contact with ENS seems to have struck a raw nerve indeed, for "Madame X" to
>come out of the woodwork and brush the "cobwebs" out of her hair.Now you have something >new to worry about, for I have learned that when I start getting return fire I am indeed getting >close to the enemy. Beware, as I told William Thomas - I am your worst nightmare, because I >know how to do the research to find the truth, have the guts to tell the truth, and the will to
>follow through to the end.
>Thomas has refused to debate me for one year now, that should tell you something about
>the true state of affairs, it's reality.
>And if you believe anyone could pay me to do what I do, you know little about what
>true love for your fellow human really is.
>The chemtrail scam you guys started is just about over, you will all be exposed. The
>truth cuts deeper than any steel, I just hope you can handle the reality when it
>finally hits you.
Third message received: 1/8/2000
You are partially right when you say that, to date, 'no medical reports, material analysis, documentable evidence'.....has shown a connection to contrails and illness. That's because the reaction that's set off is like an allergic reaction, it causes a host of symptoms which are identifiable with several disease processes....coughing, sneezing, headaches, stiff neck, sore throat, earaches, shortnes of breath, etc. You are however, absolutely wrong when you say there is no documentable evidence that JP-8 fuel causes any health problems. OSHA did an extensive study of ground crews
working with JP-8 and found that they had almost identical symptoms to what people who claim to have "contrail" illness have, i.e., a prolonged and hacking cough, headaches, sore throats, watery eyes, etc....so, for someone who says they have the means at their disposal to do the research necessary to tell "the truth" as you call it, you certainly are lacking in some crucial information. There are many "contrail" websites on the internet, many of which have boiled my blood with wrong information that was attributed toWill Thomas. People take someone else's words and many times interpret them with their own agenda behind it. Ethylene dibromide was an issue that some of these people chose to take and say whatever they thought was the case. What Will Thomas said publicly is that whatever the purpose of these unusual contrails are, people are reporting getting ill from them. You need to sift through what other people are interpreting and writing on web sites as "what Will Thomas said", and what actually came out of his mouth. Our information doesn't include statements that ethylene dibromide is a chemical warfare agent. Its an additive in jet fuel. Besides, it was supposed to have been taken out of fuel several years ago, however, whether that action actually occurred is hard to say.
You are right when you say those with factual information have a moral obligation to inform the nation.....that's exactly what we've been working on, presenting "factual information", but that factual information also involves indentifying the cause as well.
You are way off when you say there are no "sky samples" because they don't exist, we refuse to show them....etc. Who would we be showing them to? Is there a grand opening somewhere that we need to present these samples in person? Do doctors take biopsy samples to medical boards
and present them as "factual information"? No, they take the reports. They give the information thats contained in the report. The actual samples exist,
Jay, I personally collected them several of them and the others were sent to me. All were tested at a reputable lab. So, again, you don't have your "factual information" correct. You haven't exposed any scam involving C-130s or anything else, nor will you. What in God's name would be the
benefit derived from creating such a story? Financial gain? Public glory? Federal punishment? I still did not see your "plausible excuse" for such activity. Because you don't have one.You talk and talk and talk and try to come on like this whomever-appointed authority on everything and you actually know very little of what you have taken upon yourself to so zealously refute.
>To: "Madame X"
>Subject: RE: RE: Oh, dear, Jay, really/Will Thomas, Chemtrails et al
>Date: January 07, 2000
>so, the new scam is C-130s? I'm still waiting to see the "hundreds" of photos showing "tankers", >and any of your so-called "sky samples" that you refuse to show because they don't exist. You >have been caught and exposed, I will continue to present the truth to the public.
>As I said in my very first article on 3/1/99:
>"Contrail formation mechanisms are ordinary and contrails themselves are increasing
>in number as a result of increased air traffic. Reports of persistent contrails are
>within what is known to be naturally possible. Contrail studies are underway which
>will increase our knowledge of their causes, frequency, and effects. High altitude
>contrails are not consistent with effective dispersal of chemical or biological
>agents. No known toxic or harmful components have been proven to be in JP-8+100 fuel.
>Ethylene dibromide is not a viable chemical warfare agent when delivered through jet
>engine combustion. No medical reports, material analysis, or documentable and
>confirmable evidence has been presented which supports the hypothesis that chemical
>or biological agents are currently being delivered or can be associated with jet
>contrails. There is a threat to Americans from germ and chemical warfare, and
>vigilance should be maintained. Speculation and rumor without factual and specific
>information can only dull that vigilance. Those with factual information have a moral
>obligation to publicize those facts, but those who "cry wolf" are not acting in the
>best interest of this nation."
>I am still waiting for anyone to fulfill that moral obligation.
>I am doing my part.
Fourth message received: 1/8/2000
First of all, if you are going to communicate with me and ask me questions, which is fine, you will accord me the same respect I have you, i.e. you address me by my name, and you speak respectfully. I address you by your name, and I try to address you in a professional, civilized manner. Therefore, you will not use my private e-mail address to take this bullying, sniping tone with me. You accuse me of lying when many times it appears that it is your interpretation of what you are reading that is incorrect. So, if you want to have a legitimate, civilized conversation with me, ask me questions, fine. Otherwise, if you can't do that, do not expect an answer from me, as I do not respond to any man, or woman, who does not accord me any respect, demands answers from me, and insults me in the process. You remark about "flakes and lunatics" and yet your remarks are dangerously near that category as well. Deal?
Now, to answer your questions, remarks:
1) I agree that the 'chemtrails' illness that people report getting after exposure can be attributed to other things.....can, that doesn't mean necessarily is. I have long wanted to be able to test chemtrails emissions to see what exactly is present in them and correlate it with reported illnesses. To date, we have been unable to get any scientific data in that vein. What Will Thomas has reported is not his own summation, rather, he is reporting what people all over the country have told him, i.e., that when they have been outdoors underneath one of these "trails", they have experienced these symptoms. As for myself, I personally experienced the same symptoms twice using myself
as a guinea pig. You can't psychologically mimic green phlegm, strep throat infection, to do it twice would require a miracle I am incapaple of performing.
2) The EDB as additive, component. Well, there seems to be some conflict of facts here. Whatever, I don't feel that it is the causative agent in these illnesses. As I mentioned, it was reported that EDB was taken out of fuel, go to the Army's website and I'll let you do a search on it yourself.
3) Larry Harris.....I don't know the man, I never spoke to him. Whether he's a racist or not, I wouldn't know. I do not support racism, nor does Will Thomas. In any form.
4) Sante Fe New Mexican newspaper remarks: I never saw those remarks. If you have, send them to me. I never said them. I was not in Sante Fe at that conference. I am not "holding out" for pay from anyone, Jay. You're right, that would not be morally responsible. I've been doing this entire investigation, as has Will Thomas, for free because I felt morally responsible to help an older
woman neighbor whose house was bombarded by this junk from a C-130 plane, and you can call it a scam if you want, but its not. No one has paid me anything in this investigation, not Will Thomas, not anyone. I have funded my own research with my own money that I get from my job as a medical editor that has nothing to do with Chemtrails, or anything else I do. They will be made public information as soon as I get the rest of the information from them that I need. I am in the process of having all the sets re-analyzed using different technology to analyze them for other components that I believe may have been missed first time around.
5) ENS paying for samples mentioned in "sky samples analyzed"....absolutely not. They did not pay for them. I did.Will Thomas reimbursed me for one set of lab tests early on, which ENS may have given him as part of research funds. I am not associated with ENS. What ENS is referring to in the paragraph you cited is that they would be willing to pay for additional testing of chemtrails emissions.
6) People crying out for answers. I know this. So am I. That's why I haven't given up on finding them in the face of extreme adversity and threats from people I've never met and know nothing about what I am doing. Because I seemed to have "crawled out of the woodwork with my cobwebs in my hair " to address you is not because you must be "close to the enemy" etc, as you put it, but because I have spent a year of my own time, my own money, my own everything to help people who can't get answers from the people who are in place to give the answers, (i.e., the
EPA, the FBI, the DOD). And I've done that in the shadows, for the most part, because I want the REAL answers, not the hype. Maybe you want to find the real answers too, and maybe you're not a paid disinformation person like everyone says you are, and if that's true, lobbing the verbal hand grenades that you do is not going to help anyone find any answers, you just confuse people even more with the inflammatory rhetoric you post on these web sites, etc.
7) The gain: Financial, public glory, federal punishment. Will Thomas is not a rich man. If anyone knows this, it is me. He has made absolutely no money to speak of off of Chemtrails, other than some lectures that paid him to come and talk to people. Public glory, well, depends on how you look at it. Obviously people know him, they don't know me from Adam (or Eve), and I'm not interested in that. The federal punishment I speak of refers to what we get for putting out such an erroneous story about C-130 Hercules military planes if it were not true. Not that either one
of wants to punish the federal government - again, you read the meaning of those words incorrectly. I am not conspiratorialist. I vote, I pay taxes, I don't attend radical antigovernment agenda meetings, etc. Its like I said, Jay. I got into looking for the answers because some very normal, nice, everyday people, came to me and asked me to help them when no one else was listening, and just blew the off with the most ridiculous explanations of what these planes were doing unloading this junk on
their houses. I have several eyewitnesses who have seen them do their thing and when the time is right they will come forward and speak alongside me. This is not the right time for that and that is all I am going to relate to you on that matter as the rest of it has to necessarily stay confidential for a while longer so that I may get the rest of the answers I need. You don't seem to understand something. This is not your average somebody's causing an environmental problem type of situation. This is something much more complicated than that. The people behind this, I don't think, will ever be held accountable.
8) Our own misery.....well, I'd have to agree with you on that score. We did get ourselves into this. But not to scam people, to try and help solve a problem. Believe me, Jay, the people who have had this gunk hit their houses do not believe it is a scam. No way in hell do they believe that. So, if you want to persist in believing this paranoid scam theory, well, not much else I can say on that matter, except you're way wrong. There are I feel alot of answers no one knows yet and until if and when we do maybe a lot of the information we get is disnformation. That's possible. We have gotten some erroneous information from people who seemed like credible sources, and I'm not talking about
LW Harris. Woodward and Bernstein got a lot of bad information in their disclosure of Watergate until the final analysis when it all came out in the wash, as it will here eventually. I am not a liar and I am not a scam artist. I don't believe Will Thomas is either. I'm not holding out for money from anyone. If I am holding out for anything it is for more information as I want to have a complete set of answers that I can give people rather than bits and pieces here and there. Money has nothing to do with it.If you have read that somewhere that I supposedly said that, send it to me. They're not my words. Like I said, neither of us has gained anything from doing this, either financially or publicly. Will has made a few dollars but they have only barely covered a few expenses. Nothing in the black, for sure. And me, I haven't received a few dollars. Nothing and no one has covered any of my expenses and I have made some expensive trips around this the US and Canada gathering information, attending information gathering conferences, videotaping eyewitnesses, and collecting lab samples. If you call that a scam, well, whatever.
>To: "Madame X"
>Subject: RE: RE: Factual information, Chemtrails et al
>Date: January 07, 2000
>>OSHA did an extensive study of ground crews working with JP-8 and found that they had >>almost identical symptoms to what people who claim to have "contrail" illness have, i.e., a >>prolonged and hacking cough, headaches, sore throats, watery eyes, etc...
>Cite the study.
>Prove the exposure from your alleged 'chemtrails'.
>Show such effects on anyone other than those with occupational exposure.
>I would be impressed.
>The symptoms you describe can have a multitude of causes, to attribute them to putative, >unproven 'chemtrails' is a leap of logic unsupportable by any scientific reasoning and is easily seen >through by anyone with intelligence. It is believeable only by those who are 'believers', not by >those who are rational, critical thinkers.
>> Our information doesn't include statements that ethylene dibromide is a chemical warfare agent.
>"Sky samples analyzed" quotes a convicted felon, LWH, that EDB is in JP-8 fuel, and does not >include any analysis. Harris is a flake, and a lunatic racist.Show the analysis.
>"HOSPITALS JAMMED AS BANNED PESTICIDE IS SPRAYED FROM THE SKIES" >says, "Ethylene dibromide is a key component of JP8."
>I know Thomas wrote this, not you, but it is a lie, totally untrue.
>>Its an additive in jet fuel.
>That is incorrect.What is your source for that statement?Cite the source.
>EDB has never been either a component or an additive in jet fuel.You are both repeating a false >rumor, a lie, which is all that 'chemtrails' are based on. You have had to do this because a lie must >be backed up with more lies, while the truth would set you free. You have only yourself to blame >for your own misery, but you both are to blame for the misery you have caused in others who >follow you blindly.
>I have exposed the lie to the truth, come out of the lie, "Madame X", that is the only way you can ever >be free.
>> Besides, it was supposed to have been taken out of fuel several years ago, however, whether >>that action actually occurred is hard to say.
>That is incorrect, what is your source for that statement?
>Cite the source(it is a lie).
>> You are way off when you say there are no "sky samples" because they don't exist, we refuse to >>show them....etc. Who would we be showing them to? Is there a grand opening somewhere that >>we need to present these samples in person? Do doctors take biopsy samples to medical boards >>and present them as "factual information"? No, they take the reports. They give the information >>thats contained in the report. The actual samples exist, Jay, I personally collected them several of >>them and the others were sent to me. All were tested at a reputable lab.
>Show the reports. Thomas told the Santa Fe New Mexican Newspaper you would only do so
>if paid, is this what you call being morally responsible??
>(6/20/99, pg E1) "My colleague and I["Madame X"] will release the name of our lab and >detailed analysis as soon as we find a publisher willing to pay us for many months of research- and >reimburse those lab tests."
>Sunny Lewis wrote a correspondent: "ENS has also offered to pay for a lab test to identify the >substance or substances that may be emitted by planes in their contrails IF a reliable sampling >source can be found. Mr Thomas is coordinating the effort to find that sample or samples."
>Did ENS not pay for the alleged sample that the article "Sky Samples Analyzed" is based on?
>Look, "Madame X", people are crying out for answers, if you are holding out for money,
>that is what I call a scam.
>> What in God's name would be the benefit derived from creating such a story? Financial gain?
>> Public glory? Federal punishment?
>All the above are part of William Thomas' agenda.
>You hit the nail right on the head.
Fifth message received: 1/9/2000
Thank you for sending me the articles from Sante Fe. I did not make the statements listed there. What I believe Will was referring to, although you are correct, that by the words used it
would be hard to glean this, is that I did not, and still do not at this moment, want the name of the lab revealed because I did not want them hounded by media people. Like Will said, and I believe this too, if that had occurred early in the testing, there is no way they would have done any further testing for me. So, I necessarily kept their name quiet. However, that will not always be the case. You're an engineer, apparently, and I don't think you have done any investigative journalism so that you would know that sometimes you have to protect your sources for a period of time in order to get more answers. It would be great if everyone were honest and people didn't harass others but this is not the world we live in. That is what I believe Will was referring to when he made those
statements. But, its never been my intention to withold information until someone pays me for it. Thats ridiculous.
2) You are quite correct when you say that many of the organisms cited from samples are quite naturally found in soil. They are! There's no secret or misinformation about that. Every bacteria, virus, fungus, mold, in existence is God made, not man made. Of course they exist naturally in nature. The point here is that these samples were not taken from soil. They were taken off of houses that were splattered from airplanes. The material came out of an airplane not from the rain even. However, what is crucial to understand about these samples is this: The mixture of several such organisms together would not be necessarily found occurring together in soil. The people who tested the samples thought it highly unusual and commented to me that some of these organisms were not usually even found in outside samples and when I told them it came out of a plane, they were very surprised and their best guess was that it was a biohazard material from some lab somewhere that somehow got out of plane carrying them. You say that the organisms found were not listed, or named - they were.
3) You need to know this definitively, as it seems you don't. I did not set out to create a lie or scam for anyone. I've already told you how I got into this and I don't want to go over that again. There are alot of ifs and inconsistencies with illnesses reported, what people claim are chemtrails, which many times are normal contrails, and just the hysteria factor here. People go outside, they see perhaps a normal contrail, a day or so later they come down with a cold, they jump up and down and say, They got me! I have chemtrail illness, when obviously that is a very long leap of the imagination. I fully agree with you that there is a lot of scientific data lacking in what people report as chemtrails sightings, illness, et al. But until somebody goes up there and grabs a few of these "trails" in an aerosol collector, well, no one will ever know for sure, will they?
4) My guinea pig test. Of course this not a scientific test, Jay. I mentioned it only as a sort of thumbnail sketch that I wanted to see if what these people were reporting had any validity at all. So, one day back in May 1999, I went out on my bike and happened to see one of these particularly voluminous vertical contrails that was spreading out horizontally at a rapid rate, yet maintaining its density, strangely. I continued to ride my bike for an hour. As I was out, I started sneezing (I am very allergic to many things), and feeling tight up in my chest (I don;t have asthma). My nose started running. My eyes watering. I went home. Later that night, I started getting a sore throat. Well, the next morning, I woke up I had one of the worst sore throats of my life, so bad, I couldn;t swallow, the left side was so swollen. I lost my voice. This persisted for a few days and I then went to my doctor who told me I had strep throat and gave me antibiotics which I took for three weeks, instead of the normal 10 days, as it took that long to get rid of. Some time later in July, I was out again riding my bike and noted one of these similar "trails". The same symptoms occurred, only to a lesser severity than the first time. Later that night, I came down with another sore throat, and again woke with it. This time, it was much less severe in soreness, but persisted for days. I again went to the doctor and he said my throat was very inflamed, and the left lymph node was badly swollen. More antibiotics, which I only need to stake for 10 days this time. Is this demonstratable, scientific proof of chemtrails illness? I don;t know. I mention it only as highly coincidental.
5) I have no problem or ego attached to retracting any statements made that may sometime later turn out to be wrong. So, when you say you are too deep into this and can't get out. I can get out at any time I want. All I have to do is know that something is erroneous information and I have no problem telling anyone that that is the case. I don't have that information at present.
6) The houses I mentioned hit with "crud" were not hit by crop dusters. Not at all. I have several eyewitnesses who actually saw the plane drop this on their property in one instance and a neighbors property in another instance. Unless the USDA has taken to using C-130 Hercules transports as crop dusters these days, those were not crop dusters, Jay. Not at all. They were unmarked, military-looking dolphin gray, very low flying, about 50 to 100 feet off the ground. If you know anything about C-130s they were perfected in Vietnam for dropping materiel in heights that low to the ground. They can do it. Why were they dropping bug powder out of them, I don't know. At first I wondered if it were their fuel tanks that had bacterial sludge in them and somehow this junk was coming out. But, as a NASA contact related to me, there's no way that the fuel tank would empty junk of that volume. The fuel lines would clog first and then the plane just would not get any fuel
to its engines. In short, it wouldn't fly. If it was something dropped from a back rampart, someone would have had to direct it. In short, the pilot and/or someone on board would know that they are jettisoning something onto this house. Don't you think?
7) The EDB mess. You say it was an additive in aviation gasoline. Thats a broad field, Jay. JP-8 is primarily rocket fuel these days with the lower grades being used for commercial liners, however, JP-8 is still used by military jets (I am told by someone who writes DOD manuals). As far as Larry Harris goes, I know that the man is a chemist and he has put out a few manuals on how to make biological warfare items. If what he said about EDB is wrong, well, I will look into that more completely, and change that if necessary.
8) Again, I am not participating in, nor have I been duped into believing anything. I make up own mind. My mind is not clear on the chemtrails illness phenomena and thus am not sure what I believe about that. I have interviewed lots of people who "claim" that they became sick while under one of these trails. They gave symptoms identical to the ones I experienced. Does that make a litmus paper test for truth, I don't really think so, but like I said, until we can get someone to go up there and do some aerosol testing, we just don't know, and I don't how you can say with surety that you know either. There's no tests to prove either way. I have told Will this many times, and to refrain from making absolute statements about contrails and their illnesses and what the intent of chemtrails are until there's some real testing done. However, I have asked the aerosol research branch of the military at Aberdeen Proving Ground if they think these are normal contrails and they tell me that they do appear different than others and hang out in the sky much longer than the should. So, it
seems there are differing opinions in different branches of the military.
9) If Will Thomas has lied to me, about anything, and I find it out beyond a shadow of a doubt, I will take him to task for it. In the past, I have been his worst critic, even more stringent than you, because I don't want my name on anything that is incorrect and I don't want his/our credibility to suffer because of it, so as far as I know, he has assured me that he has checked out to the best of his ability claims that people have made and information given to him. If you sent him info regarding EDB that he seemingly ignored, that may be because he has information to the contrary and chose to go with that source. Like I said, your delivery in how you present yourself and your ideas is not very conducive to wanting to engage in a conversation with you, or give any credence to "facts" that you cite. You can't beat people over the head with your words, insult their intentions, etc, and then expect them to believe what you are telling them. I chose to write to you because I am very curious what all this noise is about and why you go on with such fury regarding it. On the surface, you
make yourself appear as a zealous fanatic with their own axe to grind. When you tone yourself down, you have come across in a slightly better light to me, so I am willing to at least meet you halfway and address what you are concerned about. I appreciate your concerns here, Jay, I hear what you are saying, and in many instances I agree and you are 100% correct. But because that is true, don't assume that I am participating in calling Will Thomas a liar or a scam artist. I'm not. I believe, truly, that he set out to answer a question, address a claim that was given to him by a man up in Washington State and set out to do so. If there are discrepancies between what some people call facts and others do, well, you find that in any story, Jay. Theres a lot of bad hysteria attached to this which has made it hard to glean the "facts". I don't believe that commercial planes are doing any of this, and if some wacko launches a terrorist attack against a commercial airline thinking they are responsible for "contrail illness", that would be a horrible tragedy. I do not want that to happen. There are many people out there with varying degrees of intelligence and common sense. Some
people will take an issue and just latch onto out of their own ignorance. I don't want any "believers", Jay. I want people to seriously question what this whole issue is about, don't make half-assed claims that they went outside and got a cold, and, oh, yeah, they saw a plane fly overhead that left a contrail. Thats not what should be taking place here. Unfortunately, a lot of that has gotten into this. That's why this story has not wrapped up yet, because there are still many things to know, and I hope we can get more answers than we have right now.
>To: "Madame X"
>Subject: RE: RE: Factual information, Chemtrails et al
>Date: January 08, 2000
> Now, to answer your questions, remarks:
>> 1) I agree that the 'chemtrails' illness that people report getting after exposure
>> can be attributed to other things.....can, that doesn't mean necessarily is. I
>>have long wanted to be able to test chemtrails emissions to see what exactly
>> is present in them and correlate it with reported illnesses. To date, we have
>> been unable to get any scientific data in that vein. What Will Thomas has
>> reported is not his own summation, rather, he is reporting what people all
>> over the country have told him, i.e., that when they have been outdoors
>> underneath one of these "trails", they have experienced these symptoms.
>This is a typical ploy used by one who makes unsupported
claims. They try to deflect
>anyone who notices that their speculation has no basis by placing the blame on people
>whom they have influenced by that speculation, their followers, merely by quoting the
>"testimony" of others who likewise have no data to support THEIR speculation. I
>believe that if you surveyed OTHER people in those areas you will find no correlation
>> As for myself, I personally experienced the same symptoms twice using myself
>> as a guinea pig. You can't psychologically mimic green phlegm, strep throat
>> infection, to do it twice would require a miracle I am incapaple of performing.
>How you make the leap from a streptococcal infection to areal spraying is a geat leap. It is well >known that strep bacteria is part of normal human flora. I am sure you know this.
>> 2) The EDB as additive, component. Well, there seems to be some conflict of facts here. >>Whatever, I don't feel that it is the causative agent in these illnesses. As I mentioned, it was >>reported that EDB was taken out of fuel, go to the Army's website and I'll let you do a search on >>it yourself.
>Yes, there is a conflict there. You and Thomas have affixed your names to an article that is >incorrect, false, and based on a rumor from Larry Wayne Harris, whom you quote in the article. >Your name is on the byline. YOU say this. YOU have an obligation to do legitimate research, and >if you had, you would have found out about the man YOU quote. He pops up on each and every >search engine in the world. It is impossible to have missed him.
>Regarding EDB, it was an additive to aviation gasoline and leaded gasoline for cars, it was never >and has never been used in jet fuel whatsoever. If you had done legitimate research you would >have found out about that. YOU reported this false information. YOUR name is on the byline.
>> 4) Sante Fe New Mexican newspaper remarks: I never saw those remarks. If you have, send >>them to me. I never said them. I was not in Sante Fe at that conference.
>The entire article is attached below. I have it hard copy also.
>It should have become apparent to you by now, as I have known for quite some time, that William >Thomas has a problem with the truth. He also shares a problem in common with all liars, and that >is that he must lie by omisssion as well as in fact. He has omitted knowledge of what he said in >Santa Fe because he is hiding the truth from you.
>He knows exactly who Larry Wayne Harris is. He knows exactly the facts about EBD, because I >told him all about it. If you truly don't know these things, that should demonstrate to you that he >has lied to you as well. I know that he has been removed as a reporter for ENS for lying. I do not >know exactly what lie he told them, but it must have been a whopper.
>He currently is displaying on his webpage an article with the ENS byline with an altered title, one >which they would not have approved- "Mystery Contrails: Poison from the Skies". ENS is pretty >pissed about that. Previously he affixed the ENS byline to his article, one which they did not >approve, titled "Hospitals Jammed", ENS was pissed about that one, too. These are more >examples of deception I have found.
>Thomas knows that real water vapor contrails can spread and persist, he wrote an article about >them years before 'chemtrails'. Any research on cirrus clouds shows that they refract light, yet in >his article "Hospitals Jammed" he wrote:" EDB is 6.5-times heavier than air. Unlike normal >contrails, the thick white streamers being sprayed from downward-pointing tailbooms over at least >39 states does not dissipate, but spreads into an overcast that refracts a purple color in sunlight >and appears suddenly as an oily film in puddles and ponds."
>These and many more examples show me without a shadow of a doubt the actions of a dishonest >person, a person not interested in the true facts, but someone on a mission. I have told him so >many times, he knows the truth and so does anyone else who follows my research.
>I urge you to examine my website, follow each and every link I cite. Sit down and think about >what he has told you, compare it to the truth you will know by then, and do what is right.
>Perhaps a crop duster plane did spill something on a house as you say. But the contrails seen in >the photos on all the websites are just that, water vapor, and that is the truth. I believe you know >this to be true already, but are afraid to admit it, because you are in so deep, and find this reality >threatens what you believe to be a true incident.
>The problem is, that by not admitting to this, and making the necessary corrections, you are >leaving your readers with a false belief, you are party to their state of fear, and in part could be >responsible for their actions. Think about that.
>The other problem is that William Thomas has destroyed his career through his own actions. Don't >be a party to his downfall.
>I have met with such deception on this issue that I cannot trust anyone.I apologize for unkind >personal remarks I made to you previously. Your first message rather challenged by forbearance >and I perhaps responded too vigorously. You appear to be genuinely deceived, and I hope you >can come to grips with reality, and if true, solve the mystery you found in Pennsylvania.
>By the way, you can absolutely identify almost all contrail
planes overhead by use of a simple >sofware program that allows
you access to Air Traffic Control radar data. No, not military,
just >commercial, but we are trying to solve a "mystery"
aren't we? I used this and found they were >normal commercial
flights, which my neighbors were reporting as chemtrails.
>If Will Thomas did not tell you about this, ask yourself , why?
Sixth message received: 1/9/2000
From: "Madame X"
To: Jay Reynolds
To answer you in brief, as I don't have all my notes in front of me. Also, let me say
this: These e-mails between us are just that. If I see any of what you and I have been talking about
appear on your web site, in excerpts, or in paraphrase, in any such manner that it appears that Will Thomas' colleague "Madame X" participating in slamming him and debunking him along with you, so help me, Jay, you will have a serious problem on your hand. That's like wire tapping, its illegal. I am not giving you consent to use these private e-mails for public consumption. These are answers to your questions only. If I feel I need to publicly clarify information that's already out there, I will. I am trying to help straighten out a problem, not create more of one. I am trying to extend to you a professional courtesy in answering all your questions.
>Unfortunately, you have followed someone who "assured"
you they were correct, and have not checked many things out for
yourself. I have seen and documented enough deception within the
chemtrail story to know more than you do about many aspects. No,
I have not "followed" anyone. I have checked out on
my own everything that has gone into every article that has my
name on them and those that don't. I am not brainwashed or lead
by anyone, including Will Thomas. The deception that you think
you see appears to me to be a problem with clarity of presentation
facts, not the facts per se. For example, the JP-8 issue: I clearly stated that I was aware that JP-8 fuel is used in military jets and you come back slamming that JP-8 is used in ALL military jets. I was told, by a person who writed DOD manuals and has asked me to keep her name out of this story, that JP-8 fuel was to be discontinued, and all mention of it is being "struck" from DOD manuals, however, they continue to use it. The OSHA study I cited is from March 1998. JP-8, as I was told by my NASA contact, was and still is as far as he knew, a UN designated fuel used primarily in their planes. It is also used by NASA as it has a very low flash point, as rocket fuel.
>People have been operating off your information with no
documentation. Since I find
>Thomas to not be a credible source, your documentation as unverifiable
What exactly are you saying here, Jay? People have been operating off your information....let me ask you a question. When Woodward and Bernstein did Watergate investigation, and came up with their Deep Throat source, who is STILL UNKNOWN to the public, were people not operating off Deep Throat's information without documentation? Uh, huh, and a whole presidency came down with it. Did people accuse Woodward and Bernstein of creating a lie and scam to undermine a presidency? We still don't know who Deep Throat was or if any such person ever existed! Even now, Carl Bernstein won't give up his name. You need to get off this total documentation subject....just like my friend who writes the manuals for DOD and asked me to leave their name out of all this. Does that mean this person doesn't exist? Does that mean I can't use their information? You're playing a harp that's out of tune, here Jay. Some documentation of statements were necessarily left vague because the people involved in making them did not want to be quoted or involved. Does that mean its a lie and scam? Does that info get lost? No, I don't think so.
>Then what is this?
>"Also isolated in our sample was a fluorescent-type of bacteria found in distant
>coral reefs, which can be used as a "marker" in lab tests.Another bacillus contained a "restriction >enzyme" used in research laboratories to "restrict" or cut DNA material for transfer to other >organisms. A computer search for this usually benign bacteria turned up Streptomyces and P. >flourescens on the same reference page - as well as the American Type Tissue Culture >Corporation."
>What is this?
>"Streptomyces was again found, as well as a bacteria capable of causing a painful ear infection."
>"Three other molds in this second sample included a "black yeast" stockpiled by the U.S. Army as >a "bioremediation organism" that thrives on TNT and petroleum spills."
>The above quotes from your article leaves three bacterium unnamed.
>It also leaves three mold unnamed, and uses only a the non-specific term "black
I gave Will all this information and as soon as I have time to pull my notes out and find the names again, you can have them. Will wrote the descriptive terms for most of these organisms thinking that the majority of people would not know how to pronounce their nomenclature names, and/or recognize them (even my doctor who is an ENT specialist didn't know the name of the organism that causes otitis media, the ear infection see below, how would the average reader even understand it). I would think you should know when you write for newspapers that you aim your language at about a 6th grade vocabulary level. If this is what you're terming as deliberate deception and scam, you have a problem, Jay.
A: ) Painful ear infection - Turicella otitidis - bacteria in otitis media (ear infections).
B:) Black yeast - Nigrospora species
C) "Organism found in distant coral reefs" - Vibrio splendidus 2, these are fluorescent bacteria that are found in coral reefs and "light up" them up giving them their vivid "day glo" color. Its found in deep sea water, marine.
D) The organism that Army has stockpiled for bioremediation : Aureobasidium pullans. Also, pseudomonas fluorescens. Go to the Army's web site and do a search on them. You'll be there all night.
E) Restriction enzymes. These are found in virtually all bacteria. All this term means is that it has the ability to cut into another bacterium to "splice" DNA together. This technique is done to study certain rungs of the DNA ladder of specific organisms. It is how "cloning" is done. It is how hybrids are created.
>I have been investigating all my life, think clearly and logically, and have an inquisitive nature and >widely varied interests. I am currently Bureau Chief for the Central Region of the US for Veritas >News Service, and have been doing this for three years.
Why does information about you, then, term you as an "engineer from Arkansas"? Are you lying and scamming people, Jay?
>I am aware he is collecting $10k for such a project, but find the lack of prior disclosure >demonstrates a lack of sincerety on the part of William Thomas, who has never shown any >documented evidence of anything whatsoever, has a history of reporting false information, and >would not ever suggest him being trusted again.In short, he has no credibility. That is apparrently >why he has been discharged from ENS.
Lack of sincerity? By what means are you measuring that? Prior disclosure regarding what exactly, Jay? The names of some bacteria organisms?Documented evidence? History of reporting false information? Please cite for me, show me this history. I'm not aware of it. I know why Will was discharged, as you term it, from ENS, and I won't comment on that because that's Will's personal life.
>By the way, I understand he was on Art Bell 2 nights ago still promoting the false EDB stuff along >with a newcomer.The new chemtrail theory he is promoting is that P Flourescens is trying to eat >EDB to solve ozone depletion. Check it out yourself.
Yeah, I know he was on Art Bell with the bioremediation person. Well, let me ask you this, do you know for sure that bioremediation is not being done in our skies? If so, I think you ought to again check out the Army website and do a search on bioremediation. Again, you will spend a lot of time there, because there is a lot of information regarding bioremediation, and I would not be at all surprised if the DOD is working on bioremediation to clean up the upper atmosphere. I went to a conference last June at Aberdeen Proving Ground and that was their prime concern, how global warming has created so many problems, even for aerosol testing of determining possible biological warfare attacks.
>> 4) My guinea pig test. Is this demonstratable, scientific proof of chemtrails illness? I don;t know.
>Well, I know it is not. And so do you. Why did you not survey others with the same exposure?
Are you referring to people in my area? Or people in general? I have surveyed all kinds of people who claim to have been ill with chemtrails symptoms. In my area, I brought the subject up to my ENT and he told me that he had seen an increase in patients who were suffering from the same symptoms, strep throat, as I and that indeed it was "going around" at that time. I told him about the "chemtrails" story I was working on and showed him pictures and he thought it was fascinating. I asked him to ask his patients who came in with similar complaints/diagnosis as mine if they were aware of any unusual looking clouds or contrails. The problem is that most people don't know what the word contrail means. He didn't even really know until I explained it to him. Concomitantly, he did not collect the data I asked for of his patients, except to say that yes he has had a lot of patients with those symptoms/diagnoses. I even drew up a questionnaire for him to give them and it never was done.
>> 5) I have no problem or ego attached to retracting any statements made that may
>> sometime later turn out to be wrong. So, when you say you are too deep into this and can't get >>out. I can get out at any time I want. All I have to do is know that something is erroneous >>information and I have no problem telling anyone that that is the case. I don't have that >>information at present.
>"Madame X", you better start, because though you may not realize it yet, you are deeply
>involved with your name attached to some false information.
I am totally convinced that what you term as "false information" is really just not information
that has not been presented to your specifications of clarity. If the bacteria/mold/fungus
organisms omission of the nomenclature names, even though they were identified descriptively,
is an example of what you think is "false or deceptive" information, I think you're stressing
yourself, and everyone else out for no good reason. It sounds like in many instances, that
different points of opinion on what is fact translates to you as deliberate deception and scam.
>> 6) The houses I mentioned hit with "crud" were not hit by crop dusters. Not at all.
>> I have several eyewitnesses who actually saw the plane drop this on their property in one >>instance and a neighbors property in another instance. Unless the USDA has taken to using >>C-130 Hercules transports as crop dusters these days, those were not crop dusters, Jay. Not >>at all. They were unmarked, military-looking dolphin gray, very low flying, about 50 to 100 feet >>off the ground. If you know anything about C-130s they were perfected in Vietnam for >>dropping materiel in heights that low to the ground. They can do it. Why were they dropping >>bug powder out of them, I don't know. At first I wondered if it were their fuel tanks that had >>bacterial sludge in them and somehow this junk was coming out. But, as a NASA contact related >>to me, there's no way that the fuel tank would empty junk of that volume. The fuel lines would >>clog first and then the plane just would not get any fuel to its engines. In short, it wouldn't fly. If it >>was something dropped from a back rampart, someone would have had to direct it. In short, >>the pilot and/or someone on board would know that they are jettisoning something onto this >>house. Don't you think?
>What bug powder? Why was "corn meal" mentioned. I note it was mentioned with no attribution >in your article. Why was no attribution or a quotation given? These omissions are hallmarks of >propaganda, not journalism. Did Thomas consult you before putting your name on this article?
"Bug powder" is my term that I just used with you in writing this, as a descriptive term. 'Corn meal' was mentioned, and I do believe there was an attribution given to that as coming from the original lab that tested it for the people in Pennsylvania. That was the ridiculous answer they gave them. The reason, I believe, that they told the residents of that sprayed house, "corn meal", is because it contained Rhizomucor a mold found on corn, or on bread sometimes. The problem here, Jay, is that many of these organisms are found on decaying organic things (i.e, food, humans, animals). So, could they have told her it was human remains instead of corn meal? Yeah, could have. If this is what you're terming as propaganda, Jay, you know, you are really, truly
stretching the yard here.
On to the Second Part of "Conversations with "Madame X"